religion

GLAMEOW wrote:<-- atheist

Sephiroth wrote:

GLAMEOW wrote:<-- atheist

kingnickolas wrote:You will all rot in the depths of hell.

QweefZilla wrote:Glad to hear Im not the only one that believes in a god.

kingnickolas wrote:Lol, dam you menace, you post whore! XD
No but yeah. That was mega ultra sarcasm from the bacteria demons squirming within my stomach. They tend to do that at times, sorry.

kingnickolas wrote:Color association dam you.
I meant Alex. xD
Right my fault. The stuff about the bacteria and what not applies here as well.

*Edit*
For clarification, I was still typing when brr decided to post his 2 cents. lol

Alex wrote:yeah that's what i said beans, you just don't know when to lock a topic.

so, qweef, you're an agnostic theist? means like, you can't clearly prove there's no god but still believe in something. i think that's a reasonable and good way to believe in something :p

The Hovel Humper wrote:

Alex wrote:yeah that's what i said beans, you just don't know when to lock a topic.

so, qweef, you're an agnostic theist? means like, you can't clearly prove there's no god but still believe in something. i think that's a reasonable and good way to believe in something :p

Stop flaming me, I didn't know so I actually said if anyone wants to unlock, go ahead :l

Unforgiven7120 wrote:How do you know if there is a god?

Code:

The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The second way is from the nature of the efficient cause. In the world of sense we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible. Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several, or only one. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate, nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there be an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The third way is taken from possibility and necessity, and runs thus. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, since they are found to be generated, and to corrupt, and consequently, they are possible to be and not to be. But it is impossible for these always to exist, for that which is possible not to be at some time is not. Therefore, if everything is possible not to be, then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. Now if this were true, even now there would be nothing in existence, because that which does not exist only begins to exist by something already existing. Therefore, if at one time nothing was in existence, it would have been impossible for anything to have begun to exist; and thus even now nothing would be in existence--which is absurd. Therefore, not all beings are merely possible, but there must exist something the existence of which is necessary. But every necessary thing either has its necessity caused by another, or not. Now it is impossible to go on to infinity in necessary things which have their necessity caused by another, as has been already proved in regard to efficient causes. Therefore we cannot but postulate the existence of some being having of itself its own necessity, and not receiving it from another, but rather causing in others their necessity. This all men speak of as God.

The fourth way is taken from the gradation to be found in things. Among beings there are some more and some less good, true, noble and the like. But "more" and "less" are predicated of different things, according as they resemble in their different ways something which is the maximum, as a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest; so that there is something which is truest, something best, something noblest and, consequently, something which is uttermost being; for those things that are greatest in truth are greatest in being, as it is written in Metaph. ii. Now the maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus; as fire, which is the maximum heat, is the cause of all hot things. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

The fifth way is taken from the governance of the world. We see that things which lack intelligence, such as natural bodies, act for an end, and this is evident from their acting always, or nearly always, in the same way, so as to obtain the best result. Hence it is plain that not fortuitously, but designedly, do they achieve their end. Now whatever lacks intelligence cannot move towards an end, unless it be directed by some being endowed with knowledge and intelligence; as the arrow is shot to its mark by the archer. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

Code:

   1.   Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
   2.   Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
   3.   Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
   4.   Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
   5.   Therefore nothing can move itself.
   6.   Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
   7.   The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
   8.   Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.


Code:

   1.   We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
   2.   Nothing exists prior to itself.
   3.   Therefore nothing is the efficient cause of itself.
   4.   If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results.
   5.   Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
   6.   The series of efficient causes cannot extend ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
   7.   Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

Code:

   1.   We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
   2.   Assume that every being is a contingent being.
   3.   For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
   4.   Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
   5.   Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
   6.   Therefore at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
   7.   Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
   8.   We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
   9.   Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
   10.   Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.

Code:

   1.   There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
   2.   Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
   3.   The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
   4.   Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

Code:

   1.   We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.
   2.   Most natural things lack knowledge. 
   3.   But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligence.
   4.   Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.