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religion

Post  Alex on Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:36 am

"Religion has the greatest bullshit story ever told: there is an invisible man, living in the sky. this man watches everything you ever do, every minute of every day. and the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does NOT want you to do, but if you do any of these them 10 things, he has a special place for you to live, full of fire and smoke and burning and anguish and fear and pain and torture, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever till the end of time.

BUT HE LOVES YOU!
HE LOVES YOU, AND HE NEEDS MONEY!
HE ALWAYS NEEDS MONEY!
HE'S SO POWERFUL ALL PERFECT ALL WISE ALL KNOWN AND JUST CAN'T HANDLE MONEY!

now, you talk about a big bullshit story.
HOLY
SHIT!"

yeah i think bor will be happy to read this Smile

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Re: religion

Post  GLAMEOW on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:08 am

<-- atheist
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Re: religion

Post  Sephiroth on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:16 am

GLAMEOW wrote:<-- atheist

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Re: religion

Post  Unforgiven7120 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:59 am

I'm not an aethiest, but I do not believe in the the massively accepted religions either. I take what I believe is true, and formed my own theories, and thusly, I have my own beliefs. No big bullshit stories, nobody telling me what I need or do not need to believe in.

Lol'd at that though. MONEY!!! WE NEED HOLY MONEY TO GET MORE HOLY WINE! SINCE JESUS CAN'T MAKE WINE ANYMORE!!! OH LAWDY!!!
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Re: religion

Post  Pkmmte on Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:56 pm

Sephiroth wrote:
GLAMEOW wrote:<-- atheist


I'm so glad there's a lot of people who don't believe these stupid stories. (I hate living with very religious parents..)
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Re: religion

Post  KingNickolas on Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:48 pm

You will all rot in the depths of hell. Twisted Evil
(Not you brrr. =P)

Anyways, this is a flame topic. (Trust me, i know how high passions can rise during these types of things.)
Someone please lock it and/or delete it.
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Re: religion

Post  QweefZilLa on Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:10 pm

kingnickolas wrote:You will all rot in the depths of hell. Twisted Evil

Glad to hear Im not the only one that believes in a god. Untill someone can explain how we were created I will believe in some type of god. My believes are more like unforgiven I too don't like the mainstream stuff because of all the molesting and stuff like that.

"energy may not be created or destroyed, but may be changed from one form to another"- Einstein's Theory of relativity
So Alex explain that to me ...

and yeah A lock will be good for this topic Razz
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Re: religion

Post  Alex on Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:20 pm

QweefZilla wrote:Glad to hear Im not the only one that believes in a god.
did you just agree to nickolas' post? if you condemn others to hell you will be condemned yourself Razz

also what does einstein's theory have to do with god?

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Re: religion

Post  KingNickolas on Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:21 pm

Yeah, never believe in the mainstream religions, that's not what the way of life is about at all. A religion is supposed to make one get closer to what we feel is the world, or heaven. (Or Nirvana for that matter Razz )
In order to believe in a religion, you have to know why, in my opinion, otherwise you're just as bad as the people attacking religion. I'm fully confident in my god, and I'm sure that my faith could survive pretty much anything, and i wish i could say the same for other Christians.

Vote #2 for a lock. !summon bor.

*Edit*
Lol, dam you menace, you post whore! XD
No but yeah. That was mega ultra sarcasm from the bacteria demons squirming within my stomach. They tend to do that at times, sorry.
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Re: religion

Post  Menace13 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:29 pm

kingnickolas wrote:Lol, dam you menace, you post whore! XD
No but yeah. That was mega ultra sarcasm from the bacteria demons squirming within my stomach. They tend to do that at times, sorry.

Firstly, WAIT WHUT? I haven't posted in here yet so GLAMEOW can't ban me for flamebaiting...
Secondly, I'M A POST WHORE?!?!? o0 I have around a THIRD as many as you!

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Re: religion

Post  KingNickolas on Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:41 pm

Color association dam you.
I meant Alex. xD
Right my fault. The stuff about the bacteria and what not applies here as well.

*Edit*
For clarification, I was still typing when brr decided to post his 2 cents. lol
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Re: religion

Post  QweefZilLa on Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:51 pm

Alex what i was saying is how do you explain our existence ??
My explanation because I do not know is a god.
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Re: religion

Post  Menace13 on Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:45 pm

kingnickolas wrote:Color association dam you.
I meant Alex. xD
Right my fault. The stuff about the bacteria and what not applies here as well.

*Edit*
For clarification, I was still typing when brr decided to post his 2 cents. lol

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Re: religion

Post  The Hovel Humper on Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:28 am

Sorry guys but this isn't going to help in any way, shape or form. Will most likely cause a flame war on sensitive topics. Locked.

If someone else wants to unlock it and keep an eye on the topic be my guest.

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Re: religion

Post  GLAMEOW on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:27 am

*unlocked*

debate thread is acceptable, keep it sane people.
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Re: religion

Post  Alex on Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:50 am

yeah that's what i said beans, you just don't know when to lock a topic.

so, qweef, you're an agnostic theist? means like, you can't clearly prove there's no god but still believe in something. i think that's a reasonable and good way to believe in something :p

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Re: religion

Post  QweefZilLa on Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:14 am

Ok Smile yeah your post made It seem like anyone who believes in religion is a complete idiot so I wanted to tell you why I was one of those people and I was trying to defend myself.
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Re: religion

Post  The Hovel Humper on Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:17 am

Alex wrote:yeah that's what i said beans, you just don't know when to lock a topic.

so, qweef, you're an agnostic theist? means like, you can't clearly prove there's no god but still believe in something. i think that's a reasonable and good way to believe in something :p

Stop flaming me, I didn't know so I actually said if anyone wants to unlock, go ahead :l

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Re: religion

Post  Menace13 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:53 am

The Hovel Humper wrote:
Alex wrote:yeah that's what i said beans, you just don't know when to lock a topic.

so, qweef, you're an agnostic theist? means like, you can't clearly prove there's no god but still believe in something. i think that's a reasonable and good way to believe in something :p

Stop flaming me, I didn't know so I actually said if anyone wants to unlock, go ahead :l

Then just don't lock it in the first place...Pull your trigger-finger off of the lock button!

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Re: religion

Post  swamp-cecil on Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:51 pm

i belive in god, but not heavily. There is someone who created us, but not stuff like building things once ever day.
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Re: religion

Post  Unforgiven7120 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:57 pm

How do you know if there is a god? You believe in it. How do you know that you're wrong? Someone proves it. How do you know if you're right? Someone proves it. Point is, neither theological believers nor science have proven either case of their story. I believe in my god. I believe in my religion. I accept both sides of each belief, and I adapt my beliefs.

Also, Hovel, if you want us to stop flaming you, you shouldn't make it so easy. It's like you have locking premature ejaculation. There's an app to fix that you know.
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Re: religion

Post  swamp-cecil on Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:00 pm

well, what unforgiven said. I belive in both simutaniously.
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Re: religion

Post  Menace13 on Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:58 pm

Unforgiven7120 wrote:How do you know if there is a god?

Saint Thomas Aquinas' 5 Ways. I learned the 1st in class a month back, and the rest I google'd.

ACTUAL TEXT:
Code:
The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The second way is from the nature of the efficient cause. In the world of sense we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible. Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several, or only one. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate, nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there be an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The third way is taken from possibility and necessity, and runs thus. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, since they are found to be generated, and to corrupt, and consequently, they are possible to be and not to be. But it is impossible for these always to exist, for that which is possible not to be at some time is not. Therefore, if everything is possible not to be, then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. Now if this were true, even now there would be nothing in existence, because that which does not exist only begins to exist by something already existing. Therefore, if at one time nothing was in existence, it would have been impossible for anything to have begun to exist; and thus even now nothing would be in existence--which is absurd. Therefore, not all beings are merely possible, but there must exist something the existence of which is necessary. But every necessary thing either has its necessity caused by another, or not. Now it is impossible to go on to infinity in necessary things which have their necessity caused by another, as has been already proved in regard to efficient causes. Therefore we cannot but postulate the existence of some being having of itself its own necessity, and not receiving it from another, but rather causing in others their necessity. This all men speak of as God.

The fourth way is taken from the gradation to be found in things. Among beings there are some more and some less good, true, noble and the like. But "more" and "less" are predicated of different things, according as they resemble in their different ways something which is the maximum, as a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest; so that there is something which is truest, something best, something noblest and, consequently, something which is uttermost being; for those things that are greatest in truth are greatest in being, as it is written in Metaph. ii. Now the maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus; as fire, which is the maximum heat, is the cause of all hot things. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

The fifth way is taken from the governance of the world. We see that things which lack intelligence, such as natural bodies, act for an end, and this is evident from their acting always, or nearly always, in the same way, so as to obtain the best result. Hence it is plain that not fortuitously, but designedly, do they achieve their end. Now whatever lacks intelligence cannot move towards an end, unless it be directed by some being endowed with knowledge and intelligence; as the arrow is shot to its mark by the archer. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

OUTLINES:
The First Way: Argument from Motion
Code:
   1.   Our senses prove that some things are in motion.
   2.   Things move when potential motion becomes actual motion.
   3.   Only an actual motion can convert a potential motion into an actual motion.
   4.   Nothing can be at once in both actuality and potentiality in the same respect (i.e., if both actual and potential, it is actual in one respect and potential in another).
   5.   Therefore nothing can move itself.
   6.   Therefore each thing in motion is moved by something else.
   7.   The sequence of motion cannot extend ad infinitum.
   8.   Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.

The Second Way: Argument from Efficient Causes
Code:
   1.   We perceive a series of efficient causes of things in the world.
   2.   Nothing exists prior to itself.
   3.   Therefore nothing is the efficient cause of itself.
   4.   If a previous efficient cause does not exist, neither does the thing that results.
   5.   Therefore if the first thing in a series does not exist, nothing in the series exists.
   6.   The series of efficient causes cannot extend ad infinitum into the past, for then there would be no things existing now.
   7.   Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.

The Third Way: Argument from Possibility and Necessity (Reductio argument)
Code:
   1.   We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, that come into being and go out of being i.e., contingent beings.
   2.   Assume that every being is a contingent being.
   3.   For each contingent being, there is a time it does not exist.
   4.   Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist.
   5.   Therefore there could have been a time when no things existed.
   6.   Therefore at that time there would have been nothing to bring the currently existing contingent beings into existence.
   7.   Therefore, nothing would be in existence now.
   8.   We have reached an absurd result from assuming that every being is a contingent being.
   9.   Therefore not every being is a contingent being.
   10.   Therefore some being exists of its own necessity, and does not receive its existence from another being, but rather causes them. This all men speak of as God.

The Fourth Way: Argument from Gradation of Being
Code:
   1.   There is a gradation to be found in things: some are better or worse than others.
   2.   Predications of degree require reference to the “uttermost” case (e.g., a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest).
   3.   The maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus.
   4.   Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.

The Fifth Way: Argument from Design
Code:
   1.   We see that natural bodies work toward some goal, and do not do so by chance.
   2.   Most natural things lack knowledge. 
   3.   But as an arrow reaches its target because it is directed by an archer, what lacks intelligence achieves goals by being directed by something intelligence.
   4.   Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.

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Re: religion

Post  $$Luis$$ on Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:02 pm

LOCKED!
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Re: religion

Post  $$Luis$$ on Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:03 pm

ehh nvm XD
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Re: religion

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